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<v 0>All and welcome to our discussion on climate change elections and Indiana's</v>

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future. My name is Sarah Bowman and my name is London Gibson,

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and we are both environmental reporters at the Indianapolis star.

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During this discussion, we will be talking to Janet McCabe,

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the director of the environmental resilience Institute at Indiana university and

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Jesse Carvana,

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executive director of the Hoosier environmental council about the intersection

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between politics and the environment in Indiana.

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Thank you, Janet and Jessie, both for taking the time to chat with us today.

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<v 1>Thanks for having us.</v>

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<v 2>So.</v>

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<v 0>To, to start this discussion, uh, kind of about the role of government,</v>

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or especially as we have, uh, an upcoming election here,

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both at the state and national level, um, you know,

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we're looking at some surveys that were recently put out, uh,

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looking at opinions of Hoosier's across Indiana, uh, survey one, both by,

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at Indiana university, uh, with you Janet,

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as well as one that was completed by the Pulliam, the Nina Mason Pulliam,

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charitable trust, uh, looking, uh,

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asking people their thoughts on climate change and environmental topics. And,

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uh, in those surveys,

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66% of Hoosiers felt that climate change is one of the most serious problems

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facing the world today.

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And the study from IEU showed that 72% of Hoosier's believe that they

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themselves will feel the impacts of climate change in their lifetime. So just,

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you know, those are just a couple stats from those surveys, but my question is,

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what do you think of surveys like the Pulliam survey and the IQ survey and their

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importance, especially as we lead into an election.

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<v 1>I think surveys are incredibly useful tools. Uh,</v>

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and one of the reasons that we decided to do one at IEU as part of the

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environmental resilience Institute work it's called the Hoosier life survey is

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because a lot of the surveying that's done is done at a national or regional

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level. And it doesn't actually talk to actual Hoosiers.

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These two surveys that you mentioned,

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talk the actual Hoosiers to get their input. And, um,

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so you get a sense of where Hoosiers are on these issues.

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And some of the results are, are not necessarily what people would expect. Um,

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a majority of Hoosiers do understand that the climate is changing and they do

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understand that that has significant adverse implications for our

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economy, for our health, for our, our way of life here in Indiana. Um, and,

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and lots of Hoosier's actually support policies, uh,

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that would address some of these issues.

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So I think this information is super useful.

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<v 0>And to ask you both this election,</v>

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the people have a lot of major issues on their mind,

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and I am talking about the wildfires on the West coast,

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but also the COVID-19 pandemic and the public outcry for racial justice that we

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have seen across the country this year.

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<v 1>How do you think that these major issues can tie to environmental issues this</v>

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November? Well,

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there are clearly a lot of issues on everybody's mind right now,

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and it seems like more every day and things sort of go up and down in terms of

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how immediate they are and people's viewpoint COVID clearly is a big, big,

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big issue for everybody. Um, the polarization, uh,

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the black lives matter issues that people are talking about.

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Those have just increased in real immediacy to people,

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but I think what we're seeing from, from, uh, the, the polling and also from,

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from news coverage and, and,

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and other things is that the environment is a,

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a steady and increasing issue of concern. Um,

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I don't think we're going to see it as one of the top couple of issues, this,

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uh, this election. Um, but there are an awful lot of people who care about it.

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And we just heard news that, um, uh,

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environment is not going to be a question in the first, um,

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debate presidential debate.

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I'm sure it will be a question in the second or third. Um,

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and just as another anecdote, um, recently, uh,

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the IEPY public policy Institute held a governor's candidate forum.

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And I noticed that in the coverage of a certain, um,

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daily newspaper in a large metropolitan area in Indiana, um, I don't think it,

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the environment, uh,

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w was mentioned as one of the issues that was a key one that was talked about,

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but that doesn't mean that people don't care about it.

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People do care about it as it was revealed in these, in these polling results.

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<v 3>No, I wouldn't say that it is remarkable about the tie-in</v>

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between,

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uh COVID and the environment and COVID and racial justice and

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environment and racial justice.

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They're all intertwined in ways that maybe at the surface may not be apparent.

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Uh, you know, I'll, I'll give a very concrete example in the Indiana context.

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Uh, Hoosier environmental council does a lot of work in,

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in regarding coal Ash and trying to protect both from the air and

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water impacts coal Ash.

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And we were particularly working in Michigan city,

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where there were some major decisions that were going to be made by item the

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state environmental agency with respect to that coal Ash dump there.

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And there was a proposal to truck that coal Ash from the coal

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Ash dump in Michigan city to another location,

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the process of doing so would have led to a lot of articulates going into the

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air and thanks to HTC and several of our local partners.

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We got IBM to change its position on that.

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And this is very much,

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very much tied to the pandemic issue because the worrying wants that people in

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the vicinity of Michigan city are already particularly vulnerable to

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COVID. Uh, uh, it's a, uh,

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large African-American population.

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They're about 50% of the people who live in the vicinity of this Michigan coal

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Ash dump are,

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and African-Americans have had much higher rates of COVID cases, uh,

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than whites on a per capita basis.

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And so there you see that very concrete intertwining of the environment

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and, um, and ritual issues. And, uh, COVID.

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<v 0>To go back to the surveys and some of the information that came</v>

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out of that, of, uh, the answers that were there, the findings,

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according to the survey, one of the surveys,

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seven and 10 Indiana voters think that both the federal and the state

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government, uh, need to do more to combat climate change. Uh,

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I mean, what are your thoughts on those findings in general,

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but especially do you think, you know, based on those results and,

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and then sometimes what we see, uh, elected officials doing,

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do you think that there's a disconnect there between kind of the way that their

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constituents feel and, and then some of the policy decisions that they make?

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<v 3>Well, if the Republican district,</v>

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the more ideological minded Republican will much more likely

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collected because the win in the primary versus the more moderate,

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pragmatic lawmaker. Um, and because,

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and this is research that Stanford university looked into, uh,

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more ideological minded voters are more likely to go out to primary elections

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than we're pragmatic voters.

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And so you'll have a composition of the general assembly that is much more

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ideological minded than the population at large,

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I'll mention one of the things which is about campaign finance laws.

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Our laws are fairly weak.

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There are no limits on what a person can give to a candidate for seat

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representative, state, Senator, or a governor. Uh,

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and so would that can mean is undue influence on the part of particularly large,

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special interests in shaping public policy behind the scenes without most people

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bothering to look,

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of course not having the time to look at campaign finance reports.

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So that is another mechanism for that disconnect between the sentiment of the

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public and action in the century.

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<v 1>I fully support the excellent points that Jesse's made there.</v>

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I also want to point out that as people have more personal experiences that

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derived from either a, a direct climate change impact,

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I E they have a flood in their own community, um,

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or they're affected by climate change in some way, um, or, um,

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uh, uh,

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lawmakers themselves start to know people who are having these experiences, uh,

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that will influence this as well. But that's all,

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that's a slow way to convince people, um, to, to,

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to listen to what's going on in their communities and make changes in the way

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they're doing public policy.

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<v 0>And as you both have kind of touched on throughout some of your answers,</v>

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you know, as the importance of letting your lawmaker know, uh,

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that these issues are important to you, uh, or, you know,

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in a way, uh, in, uh,

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for a lawmaker that reflects the policies that you want to see in place.

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Do you think, obviously when people vote,

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there are a lot of factors that they are thinking about,

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but do you think we're getting to a point potentially where, you know,

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people are going to be voting for a candidate largely based on

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environmental issues and concerns and climate change and what that

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candidate is doing or not doing to address it?

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<v 3>I think we're reaching that point, Sarah. Um, I think, you know,</v>

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it's striking that PBS NewsHour did a poll that showed at least at a national

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level and among Democrats, the number one issue on their minds, uh,

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is climate change, uh, uh, that was striking in the midst of the pandemic,

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in the midst of such a tough economy. Um, so I think polling,

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whether it's the poll or the more simple is showing that there is again,

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strong levels of commitment and care for the environment,

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the fact that the environment is considered a top five issue, uh,

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of most important issue in Indiana. In fact,